[Penguicon-Concom] Attendee Release Form

Mon Oct 22 22:16:20 EDT 2007

Speaking from a practical legal perspective, Matt is right about how much a
liability waiver is worth.  Either nothing, or exactly as much money as
you're willing to spend on the lawyer to defend you against the suit that
will be brought against you waiver or no.  Since a convention like this has
no money to speak of, it can't mount any legal defense to speak of.  So a
waiver really isn't going to do any good, and it will probably annoy a lot
of people. (Especially in some areas of the open source community, who hate
to sign *anything* that looks legally binding.)

Uncle Scrooge
(Steve Gutterman)

P.S.  On the other hand, writing the mother of all waivers could certainly
be fun.  I'd want to have it say that we were held harmless against loss of
the attendees soul due to a long list of reasons...

On 10/22/07, Matt Arnold <matt.mattarn at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> We've had a Rules section of the program book every year the
> convention has been in existence. It stated sufficiently clearly which
> behaviors would come with which consequences. I don't see what
> difference it makes to make anyone sign it.
>
> As for releasing us from liability, such waivers are worth nothing.
>
> As for recording and distributing the recordings, I think we might
> just put a notice on the web and in the program book "We're probably
> going to record you and give it away, so you have been warned. Let us
> know if you want to individually be exempt from that, otherwise, we're
> going ahead with it." I learned from my involvement with the Science
> Fiction Oral History Association that excessive concern with this is
> paralyzing. Looking strictly at that organization's behavior, anyone
> would think their mission was to withhold science fiction oral history
> from the public rather than promote it.
>
> -Matt
>
> On 10/22/07, Jer <jer.lance at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Yes, they have approximately 3 pages of small-print blanket policies. I
> > have, somewhere, a copy of them.. but they're largely inconsequential.
> >
> >
> > --
> > -jer
> > jer.lance at gmail.com
> > http://www.ibloviate.org
> >
> > On 10/22/07, Molly de Blanc <majorarcanna at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, like hotel pools have been known to have "No unattended children
> > under 16' policies. I was wondering if the hotel itself had any blanket
> > policies/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > FY,
> > >
> > > Molly
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> >
> > >
> > > From: concom-bounces at penguicon.org [mailto:
> concom-bounces at penguicon.org]
> > On Behalf Of Jer
> > > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 4:12 PM
> > >
> > > To: Penguicon Concom Discussion List
> > > Subject: Re: [Penguicon-Concom] Attendee Release Form
> > >
> > > To: Penguicon Concom Discussion List
> > > Subject: Re: [Penguicon-Concom] Attendee Release Form
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > That's kinda a vague question. I mean... fire == bad. Rape and murder
> are
> > strictly verboten. I'm pretty sure bestiality is right out. I'm
> relatively
> > confident that urination on the carpet is out.
> > >
> > > I am not entirely sure that we want to make what amounts to a
> exhaustive
> > list of don'ts, do we?
> > >
> > > --
> > > -jer
> > > jer.lance at gmail.com
> > > http://www.ibloviate.org
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/22/07, Molly de Blanc <majorarcanna at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Also, does our hotel have any sort of rules about what can and cannot
> be
> > > done there that we maybe ought to want to make sure our attendees are
> > aware
> > > of?
> > >
> > > FY,
> > > Molly
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: concom-bounces at penguicon.org [mailto:
> concom-bounces at penguicon.org]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Matt Arnold
> > > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:43 PM
> > > To: Penguicon Concom Discussion List
> > > Subject: Re: [Penguicon-Concom] Attendee Release Form
> > >
> > > Well, if you open a copy of the program book to the end of the rules
> > > section, you'll find in tiny print an End User License Agreement that
> > > has the most draconian terms that Chuck and I could dream up for a
> > > humor piece. It's not in a foreign language, but I could do that too.
> > > -Matt
> > >
> > > On 10/22/07, Jer < jer.lance at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > YES! The microsoft of conventions.
> > > >
> > > > In all seriousness, though, if we have a form that says "agree to
> all of
> > > > this now or go get your refund and b'bye", I don't think it's a
> problem.
> > > If
> > > > it's in tiny print. In a foreign language. And has draconian terms.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > -jer
> > > > jer.lance at gmail.com
> > > > http://www.ibloviate.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 10/22/07, Matt Arnold <matt.mattarn at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/21/07, Molly de Blanc < majorarcanna at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would like to move that we create a release form we require
> > > attendees
> > > > to
> > > > > > sign when picking up their badge/buying their badge/whatever
> saying
> > > > things
> > > > > > like "We have the right to video tape you and you can't sue us
> if
> > you
> > > > break
> > > > > > your leg."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Discuss.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Faithfully yours,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Molly
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Would their membership be revoked if they refuse to sign an end
> user
> > > > > license agreement which is sprung on them after they've already
> made
> > > > > their purchase?
> > > > >
> > > > > -Matt
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > concom mailing list
> > > > > concom at penguicon.org
> > > > > http://penguicon.org/mailman/listinfo/concom
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > concom at penguicon.org
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> > > >
> > > >
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> > >
> >
> >
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-- 

"I hear that in the wake of the forged-documents story Dan Rather spends his
evenings in the cellar at CBS's 'black rock' (headquarters) wearing a cape
and playing a pipe-organ upon which he pounds out Teutonic funereal dirges
while singing about how he will one day eat Karl Rove's heart." -- Jonah
Goldberg
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